Talk: The Roadhouse/Archive

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Roadhouse VS. Bang Bang Bar

Why not just agree with what the creators/writers of the TV show and film, the authors of every book on the subject, as well as what all of the fans have called this location for over two decades? This place is called The Roadhouse, always has been, always will be. It is not "often referred to simply as the Roadhouse". It is ONLY referred to as the Roadhouse. Go search the transcripts, you'll never find anyone talking about what the sign says. The owners of the location always answer the phone "Roadhouse" and every character says "Roadhouse" when referring to this place ever single time. This isn't some opinion about what the place should be called. The place has a thoroughly established and accepted name, and this Wiki is bizarrely second-guessing this for no reason.

Do you call the Double R Diner the "Mar-T RR Cafe" or not? Because that's what the sign literally says in front of that building, every time we see it. We know it is called the Double R Diner because that's what everybody calls it, despite the signage. Why should it be different with The Roadhouse?

In every article, book, or video from the past 25 years about Twin Peaks, they only refer to this place as "The Roadhouse." This wiki even has a character called "The Roadhouse Singer" for crying out loud.  To not have that as the location's main title makes absolutely no sense. This is supposed to be where people can find out what the locations people are talking about refer to. If you tell them "oh, it's actually called The Bang Bang Bar" then they're not going to be able to Google that term and find a whole hell of a lot. The least this site can do is correct people as to the name of the location if they find it by searching for "Bang Bang Bar".

Also, this wiki called it "The Roadhouse" from the very beginning, up until when the new season was announced, then one person decided to call it "The Bang Bang Bar." Check the history. You're going on one person's opinion on what it should be called based off of whatever they felt like. I'm representing the vast majority of Twin Peaks fans and this wiki is doing something else right now.

Stevenguy (talk) 07:26, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

I really don't see why this is being made an issue. I know it's exclusively referred to as the Roadhouse, but they wouldn't use the Bang Bang Bar sign as an establishing shot countless times if that wasn't the actual name of the Roadhouse.

The sign was made specifically for the show, so I fail to see how it's in disagreement with the writers, which makes it different from the Double R sign, which is mostly the Mar-T's actual sign, save for the "RR" added. The actual location is the Colonial Inn, not the Bang Bang Bar, so I'm not confusing it for a real-life name. If someone had named the page Colonial Inn, then we'd have an issue. If you Google "roadhouse twin peaks," this page is the very first result, so I still fail to see how there would be confusion.

Then the last point is making assumptions. The renaming of the article had nothing to do with the new season. It was named after noticing "hey, this place has an actual name other than 'Roadhouse.'" And it's not like the Wiki refers to it exclusively as the Bang Bang Bar. The term Roadhouse is used way more often on the articles.

I am willing to make a compromise by renaming the page "Roadhouse" while still acknowledging its actual name, the Bang Bang Bar. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 14:17, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

just adding my two cents. I've assumed it to be called the Bang Bang for over 25 years now. It's what the sign says, they wouldnt use it in establishing shots if that wasnt the name. They never use the RR sign as an establishing shot, but they almost always use the Bang Bang sign to establish it. Showtime has even released t-shirts with the sign on it, calling the roadhouse the "Bang Bang Bar" in the description. It's the Bang Bang Bar. It's just like if my mothet is named Mary, but she goes by her middle name Ellen. NOBODY calls her Mary, but that's still her legal name. Everybody calls the roadhouse the roadhouse, but it's still the Bang bang Bar172.58.158.132 16:04, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

http://www.intwinpeaks.com/2009/03/real-roadhouse.html

That's the actual Roadhouse in real life. As you can see, the bar sign was placed on the side of the building - by the bar entrance. The fictional building itself is called The Roadhouse. The bar is within The Roadhouse. In every script, the Roadhouse is capitalized because it's the name of the building.

Showtime's T-shirt page uses text from this wiki, so that should tell you where they got their info from. In fact, plenty of people writing or podcasting about Twin Peaks for the first time are relying on this site. And it is currently giving them the wrong information.

The building isn't called anything but The Roadhouse. There's a sign on the side that says The Bar, and it has a gun on it that says Bang.

Stevenguy (talk) 19:22, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

I still don't see what the big issue is. The sign is used for establishing shots for just about everything that goes on in the Roadhouse, indicating that it is the name of the whole establishment. This site is not the only source that has used Bang Bang Bar, and I haven't seen anyone else bothered or confused by its use. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 19:35, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

It is not the name of the location. 

Every reference in this wiki to the location says "Roadhouse." Why after being the established name for the location for so long should it be arbitrarily changed to Bang Bang Bar without even a discussion? Hell, it's not even clear that's what the sign is saying. I see "The Bar" and then there's a gun being fired. Since nobody has provided any citations from an official source, it's all merely original research by internet randos.

The building is massive and two stories tall. The bar is in a section of the first floor of that building. The building is called The Roadhouse. We never see the front of the building, so we never see a sign that says Roadhouse (there is one there, now, on the actual building). The sign we see is on the side of the building over the bar entrance. It is for the bar in The Roadhouse.

The scene headers in every script all say INT - ROADHOUSE and the characters all call it "Roadhouse", always capitalized. It's a proper noun. It's also refered to as "The Roahouse" in every book. The bar is not "a roadhouse." The bar is in The Roadhouse.

Stevenguy (talk) 21:27, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

It is referred to as "The Roadhouse" because it's a roadhouse and it's the only roadhouse in the town, thus making this a nickname for it, and nicknames are proper nouns. You haven't provided any proof that Bang Bang Bar is not the name of the roadhouse, and it's never made clear what is the front and the back and what floors there are. You're basing that completely on the filming location. And the interior shots show the bar being on the same floor as everything else we've seen.

As for references to the roadhouse on other pages, I never I've never made any suggestion of changing every reference from "Roadhouse" to "Bang Bang Bar." It's just like calling Dale Cooper by "Cooper," "Agent Cooper," or "Dale." Different names for the same exact thing. Both "Roadhouse" and "Bang Bang Bar," are correct, the latter being the establishment's proper name. And I don't understand what you mean that there is a lack of citations from an official source when the sign is right there on-screen in several episodes, as clear as day, with the words "The Bang Bang Bar," more often than not directly before scenes taking place inside the Roadhouse. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 21:43, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

Simply provide a single official source that mentions the phrase The Bang Bang Bar. And no, the Showtime's marketing team doesn't count, since they got their info from this wiki. I'm talking about the writers of the show and the books. Should be easy to find since that's the real and true name and all, right?

Again, you're guessing the sign is calling the entire building The Bang Bang Bar. That is original research. Hell, the bar could be called The Pistol Bar. Or it could just be called "The Bar" and there's a gun on it. You don't know. You're guessing. So how about in the meantime, while you find an actual reason to change the name of the location, you put it back what everybody can agree on, that it's called The Roadhouse.

Stevenguy (talk) 22:09, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

On-screen text is an official source. It's really the same thing as Josie Packard's name being Jocelyn Packard. It's seen written in the credits every episode she's in, but is official, despite "Jocelyn" never being spoken on-screen in any episode.

If the sign isn't for the whole building, then David Lynch somehow doesn't know how to do establishing shots, though I highly doubt that's the case. They want to let us know we're about to see the Roadhouse? They show us a sign that reads, "The Bang Bang Bar." Simple as that. It can't be called The Pistol Bar or simply The Bar, because the sign very clearly says "The Bang Bang Bar." I still don't understand why this has to be a big deal. After digging and digging through webpages, you're the only one I've found that has expressed any significant doubt over this subject. I will rename the article since we can agree on that compromise, but the statement of "the Bang Bang Bar" being its proper name will remain. Establishment shots should be proof enough. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 22:24, June 22, 2017 (UTC)

In the episode that just aired a few hours ago [S03E08], the emcee introducing Nine Inch Nails called the venue "The Roadhouse." He did not say "The Bang Bang Bar" or anything else like it. The name of the place is clearly "The Roadhouse" as we have known it to be for over 25 years. I'm sorry, but it is what it is. It isn't mostly known as "The Roadhouse." It is only known as that, except for some random internet people who have decided on their own to call it something else.

Stevenguy (talk) 05:07, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

As I said before: "The Roadhouse" is a nickname for the Bang Bang Bar. The Bang Bang Bar is a roadhouse. It is the only roadhouse in Twin Peaks. Thus, everyone in Twin Peaks calls it the Roadhouse. That in no way disproves it being called the Bang Bang Bar. This conversation is going completely in circles. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 05:10, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

What if the sign just says "The Bar" and there's also a gun on it with "BANG" coming out the barrel? You can't say that's wrong. It's like saying the "One Eyed Jacks" sign really means "The Jack of Spades" because that's what you see. All we know is it's the bar at The Roadhouse, and you're saying "no, it's the Bang Bang Bar." According to...?

What proof do you have? "It's what it looks like to me when I see the sign." That's not proof. It's merely original research. Nobody from the show has come out and called the place The Bang Bang Bar. Only you and a few randos from the internet have done that. The circle begins and ends with you.

Look, I hate to be all pedantic and annoying, but you're the one trying to force something different at us out of the blue. I'm sure you're a good person. You're a Twin Peaks fan, so you can't be bad, imo. I'm just saying, this fictional place is called what's it's called because it's what everybody in this fiction calls it.

Stevenguy (talk) 07:05, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

Jesus Christ, who cares? You got what you wanted - the page is The Roadhouse, as it should be, it's the most common name and what everyone and their mother calls it - but the sign out front advertising the place does not say "The Roadhouse," it says "The Bang Bang Bar" (not "The Bar" plus gun - I don't even know how to argue against that, it's so ludicrous it never occurred to me or anyone else before you came up with it). The sign was created for the show, it appears prominently in several establishing shots; it's not as if it's an accident that it ended up on camera, so why are you so insistent that it be disregarded? Clearly the official name - what the business was incorporated as, what would come up on Google Maps, etc. - is The Bang Bang Bar, but everyone in town - either out of tradition, or because (I would assume) it was built decades ago and went by a different name or names back then - calls it the Roadhouse. As is clearly established in the article, now, so I don't know why you're still bitching about it. Unless you just want the order of the names switched in the lede, which, again - who cares? --Pyramidhead (talk) 09:19, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

It is the Roadhouse.

This is ridiculous.  We have every script, every character, every piece of written material published by the show's authors calling this place "The Roadhouse"  We have the announcer in Episode 8 introducing NIN by saying "The Roadhouse Is Proud To Welcome...."  

By contrast, we have 0 examples of this place ever being called "The Bang Bang Bar"

The Neon sign says "The Bar" and there is a gun on it.  It does not say "The Bang Bang Bar"  Thousands of bars in the 70s had a neon sign proclaiming "Go-Go Bar" but the name of this bar was not the "go go bar" 

The problem is that many writers are actually using this page rather than watching the original show, and they're all using the wrong name for the bar.  

I can't fathom why you would argue against the words of every character.  There are owls in the Roadhouse.  

Please stop perpetuating the use of the blatantly wrong name.  The name "bang bang bar" needs to be completely removed from this site, or the site is inaccurate.  

Read the above conversation. I will not further it any longer than this, as you are simply repeating information that has already been stated. It is the Bang Bang Bar, that is the end of it. Get over it, goodbye. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 17:16, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

I read the conversation.  You're wrong, and you're weilding your admin powers to perpetuate and distribute inacurate information.  It is clear to any long time fan of the show that you are wrong.  Like it was mentioned above, it isn't "mostly" referred to as the Roadhouse, it is only referred to as the Roadhouse.  I don't understand why you want to distribute incorrect and misleading information simply as a matter of protecting your pride.   There are thousands of examples of the place being called the Roadhouse but not a single one, outside of your imagination, of the bar being called the "Bang Bang Bar"  You're making yourself and every journalist who quotes this page look like some know-nothing johnny-come-lately dolt.  

https://gyazo.com/f8ae8aa5f5ae449a17d109444fb601ac

This is not about me, this is not about my admin rights. Do not make this about me, because it's not. I never denied it being called the Roadhouse. I know everyone calls it the Roadhouse. The clearly-displayed sign outside that is used for establishing shots is all we need as evidence for "The Bang Bang Bar." Just because everyone calls it "the Roadhouse" does not mean its incorporated name cannot be "The Bang Bang Bar." PyramidHead's response is the simplest, most concise explanation and it doesn't need to go any further than that. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 17:54, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

Just like a "Go-Go Bar" sign outside of a GoGo Bar (that is probably not called The Go Go Bar) the neon sign says "The Bar" and there is a gun on it.  If we can debate what the sign says (The Bar Bang Bang, The Gun Bar) then it certainly isn't enough to definitively name the bar.  Why not use the name that has been used by all characters, all books, and the movie?  Neither of you seem to have an interest in accurately reporting facts about Twin Peaks, but you seem to have a large interest in being right.  Saying "The Roadhouse singer performs at the Bang Bang Bar" is deliberately spreading wrong information, and there is absolutely no reason to do it, except for it is indeed all about you. 

I don't care who refers to it as what. I only undid the Roadhouse Singer edit because the link was removed and a snide comment was made. Show me something that definitively proves that the Roadhouse is not incorporated as The Bang Bang Bar, and I'll be happy to oblige. Wikis are based on facts, and the fact is that we have been shown a sign reading, "The Bang Bang Bar" countless times. It doesn't say anything else. Nobody was confused about that until now. Also, what does it matter? You're acting like the whole fandom is going to crumble because of this. One way or the other, everyone knows what everyone else is referring to, whether they call it the Bang Bang Bar or the Roadhouse. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 18:09, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

I can prove to you that it is not incorpoarated because it is a fictional location and thus does not need to be incorporated.  Seriously, that sign does not say "The bang bang bar" without a doubt.  It is very easy to make the case that it says "The Bar" and the gun is saying "Bang Bang"  It isn't unreasonable or crazy to say that what the sign says is up for debate, and that's a healthy debate.

 My issue is with this site being used by so many articles who are now using a name that I've never heard in 27 years of rabid TP fandom.  I had a party when ABC decided to continue with TP, I waited for each new episode to come on when they originally aired, and I read every related book, downloaded scripts. I wrote letters to ABC demanding they continue the show.  

I'm doing this not to be a pain, but to correct an inaccuracy.  This name does not need to be used.  Did you not hear what the announcer said in Episode 8 last night?  Did you not hear Mr. Renault in Ep. 7?  Have you never looked at the scripts?  Why would the scripts say "The Roadhouse?"  What is in the script is as official of a title as any.  There are hundreds of reasons to call it the Roadhouse, and I'm going to be generous here and say there is one reason to call it the Bang Bang Bar.  So that score is 100s vs. 1.  Why would you willingly choose to use the name supported by only one piece of evidence in your articles rather than the actual name used seriously everywhere else?  

I don't think that it is fair for you to tell long time fans of this show, who have been watching and rewatching since it originally aired, that your interpretation of the name is the definitive name and that we should "get over it."   I'd like for you to unlock the Roadhouse page to editing.  I promise to include 0 snarky comments but as the page is now it is willfully inaccurate.  I'd also like you to change any page that says "Bang Bang Bar" and change it back to the correct "Roadhouse"    On the roadhouse page you can say as a footnote "There is a neon sign outside the bar that says depicts a gun with the words "bang bang" coming out of the barrel.  The words "The Bar" also appear on this sign.  Due to this sign, there has been some minimal speculation that the bar might be called "The Bang Bang Bar" but this is not supported by any materials related to the show, or by the show itself, and this name has never been spoken by a character or by anyone involved with the show in its entire 27 year history"   

Yes, it's clearly this one wiki page that's spreading fake news all over the world about the name of this made-up bar in this made-up town, it couldn't possibly be - I don't know, the sign above the door that was shown prominently on multiple occasions over the last thirty years? Including, I might add, in the first promo for the new season? Why are you under the impression that every news organization on Earth is visiting this site and basing their reporting on it, rather than the actual official materials released by Showtime? BTW it's perfectly acceptable to use "the Roadhouse" instead of "Bang Bang Bar" across the wiki so this conversation is completely irrelevant but whatevs --Pyramidhead (talk) 19:35, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

The only reason the article is locked to new and unregistered users is because of this argument right here. It's protected to prevent edit warring until a consensus is reached. This is standard Wiki procedure and not an abuse of admin rights, before you try making this about me again. The only thing that has been agreed upon is having the title be "The Roadhouse." And nobody is stopping you from changing all "Bang Bang Bar" links in articles to "Roadhouse" or "the Roadhouse" as that is completely acceptable, as long as you don't entirely remove the links themselves. What is seen on-screen carries more weight than what is scripted, which is why the sign is considered correct. There are plenty of other unscripted aspects that ended up in the show and film that nobody argues about. Also, I would actually enjoy this if it could be an actual constructive conversation rather than a continuous barrage of "you're wrong, I'm right." Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 21:51, June 26, 2017 (UTC)

Let's just be abundantly clear here: The name of this bar was all well established long before Showtime was anywhere near the picture, let alone in it.  If you've noticed, I have absolutely no arguments to make about anything else Twin Peaks releated, because most of those things are actually something that we can argue about and aren't proven by an overwhelming weight of evidence.  We've already discussed the sign.  I say it says "The Bar" you say it says "The Bang Bang Bar."  Neither can be proven, but the one thing proven is that a neon sign alone is not sufficient to name the place, so we turn to other evidence, *all* of which says the name is "The Roadhouse."  It's not like I'm right, i'm just trying to point out what is clear and obvious.  I have lots of theories about TP, none of which I feel the need to argue because why argue what can't be proved?  This isn't a theory, this is the name of a place supported by all evidence available except for 1 piece of evidence that is, as I've already pointed out, debatable.  I feel this consensus has been reached long ago and it is so plain, simple and obvious that I wonder why it was even needed.  On the "you're wrong, I'm right" thing... I think that the only reason the words "bang bang bar" still exist on this wiki is because "you're right and i'm wrong."  

I'm done, I won't continue to argue this point.  I appreciate your efforts on this wiki and apart from this one enourmous and glaring bit of willfull ignorance, it is quite nicely done. 

Citations needed

There are some items on this page that need a source. 

"The distinctive animated "Bang Bang Bar" neon sign was created by the production, apparently to identify the establishment's official name. However, it is notable that the location is referred to in dialogue and scripts solely as "the Roadhouse," and never explicitly as the "Bang Bang Bar." 1.  What is the source that states the sign was created by the production? 2.  It would seem that "apparently to identify the establishment's official name" is completely an opinion statement, it should be verified with a source, or removed.  3.  That "The Roadhouse" is how the bar is colloquially named and not officially named needs to be cited as well.   Obeloinkment (talk) 19:20, June 28, 2017 (UTC)Obelionkment 

1 - the sign was never on the building when they werent filming. Common sense dictates that the sign was made for the show its not a random event that it ended up there just for the filming of twin peaks.

2 - How is that an opinion when it is a FACT that the sign hangs above the door? Again, common sense. quit grabbing at straws to try and prove your point. Provide citations that prove the sign has nothing to do with the name, as you lot have been asked to do on numerous occasions AND THEY HAVE MADE IT CLEAR THAT IS ALL YOU NEED TO DO TO END THIS STUPID ARGUMENT THAT NOBODY CARES ABOUT BUT YOU. Based on this logic, the bar Diane drinks at should be called "The bar where Diane drinks" instead of the sign that says Max Von's Bar.

3 - do they really need to cite every single instance of someone saying "the Roadhouse" and every instance of the sign? for fucks sake

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Wow, there is no need to get angry and shout.  "Common sense dictates" is not a source.  There are many neon signs available with guns that say "bang bang" and a lot of them are used in bars.  I would like to see something that says this sign was made special by the production and not purchased.  That distinction would go a long way towards putting this silly argument to bed and having "bang bang bar" expunged from this wikia.  Again, the opinion is that the sign is there to announce the name of the bar, and not simply a novel decoration like most neon signs.  There have been at least 4 different people on this talk page who have shared my viewpoint, so I would say that certainly more people care about this than me.  There are threads and memes all over FB, twitter, and reddit that openly mock people who say "Bang Bang Bar" so it is certainly bigger than just one person.  The bar where Diane drinks isn't used by every character in the show, the scripts, the books, and the film, and is not featured in practically every episode.  If the sign is the defininitive name for a place, we need to edit the Double R Diner page, because the location is obviously the "RR T MAR CAFE."  I'll get around to correcting that asap. 

173.239.202.68 20:04, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

Wow, you spergs are getting desperate. I don't know, I can't imagine where this sign that was never and has never been part of the real Colonial Inn building could have come from, it must have just materialized when they showed up to film. But I feel you, knowing that there are threads and even memes(!) out there really drives home how important it is to address this serious issue --Pyramidhead (talk) 20:52, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

Sperg?  There really is no need for name calling.  No one said they didn't put up the sign, but the page said, before you edited it, that the sign was created by the production.  It still incorrectly suggests that the sign was there to suggest the official name.  That is opinion.  It's my opinion that the sign was hung there to decorate the bar with a typical bar-decorating neon sign.  You can't prove either, and my hypothosis is just as valid as yours, so that should be removed as it isn't fact, it is opinion.  Ever see the Twin Peaks card set?  Fascinating.  Here's the card for The Roadhouse.  I couldn't find one for the "Bang Bang Bar"  

https://gyazo.com/59ded2c4506beec81067d49f4439cc9a

  173.239.236.77 21:10, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

How can they possibly argue with the Access Guide to Twin Peaks or the card pictured above?  The locations for both were provided by Lynch/Frost Productions.  This is totally down to ego and not wanting to admit being wrong.  Everyone knows it is ONLY "The Roadhouse"  I can't believe that a Twin Peaks fan would promote any other name. 

Replaced "created" with "added," if that makes any difference whatsoever. Look - this is a complete non-issue. Literally the only place the Bang Bar Bar is used is on this page; it's the Roadhouse everywhere else - if you do find it somewhere else, then change it. No one cares! If the people writing entire novels on this talk page would have put in a tiny fraction of that effort into, you know, the actual content of the wiki, imagine what they could have achieved. IMO it's ridiculous that it took until just this week for someone (me) to add all the info about the employees and staff, and that's barely a drop in the bucket. --Pyramidhead (talk) 21:18, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

The Roadhouse Page is locked.  As soon as "Bang Bang Bar" is removed from the opening paragraph, we can move on.  Until then, the novels will likely continue.

Fine. Just proves that I was entirely accurate and probably too kind in my choice of words --Pyramidhead (talk) 21:27, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

Proves what?  You're fighting to keep a never-used, inaccurate name and calling people names, and locking them out of the page if they don't agree with your incorrect idea about the name of the place.  Name calling and locking the page says to me that your argument can't stand up to honest debate.  Reading this whole page makes the admins seem petty minded, unwilling to admit that they're wrong, and happy to engage in the spread of purposefully misleading information.  And yeah... what about the Double R?  If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck... 177.154.139.202 21:35, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

"I" am not an admin, I haven't locked anything. JFC I agree with you that it's the Roadhouse. If there weren't a prominent sign saying otherwise right above the door it would be the Roadhouse forever and always, but again - why is there no "Roadhouse" sign if it's incontrovertibly that name and that name only? I've already made the case somewhere above so I won't go into it again. The reason it's locked, I would assume, is because a striking number of people who disagree with me started vandalizing the actual article and others to get their point across. --Pyramidhead (talk) 21:43, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

he Double R is explained in Secret History: The sign stands for Marty's Railroad Cafe and the restaurant was later renamed to the Double R Diner, but the sign remained. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 21:39, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

So a striking number of people have tried to change the page because it is incorrect, so instead of considering that the striking number of people are correct that "Bang Bang Bar" is not the name of the place, the page was just locked.  I understand now.  So a sign is outside that could say "The bar," "The Pistol Bar," "The Gun Bar," "The Bang Bang Bar" is proof enough for you to say without a doubt that this is the name?  It has never been used anywhere.  Did you see the Card?  Did you see the Access Guide?  The thousands of times that it has been called "The Roadhouse" are definitive.  The card pictured above is for The Roadhouse, capital letters, it is the official name.  Let's just start with the card.  Why do you, editor of Wiki, know better than the cards, which were complied by Lynch/Frost Productions?  Why does your idea about the sign supercede the Access Guide to Twin Peaks, that clearly calls the place Roadhouse?  Why is your idea more legitimate than the most recent episode of the show when the annoucer CLEARLY says "Ladies and Gentlemen, The Roadhouse is proud to welcome the Nine Inch Nails"  Why would an older person use a colloquial name INSIDE the location during a concert?  C'mon, it's The Roadhouse.  It's always been The Roadhouse.  It is ONLY The Roadhouse.  Every time I point this out to someone, they send me to this wiki as proof that they're right.  You're making a generation of writers look stupid.  179.43.156.163 21:55, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

"a striking number of persons"...Do you suffer from multiple personality disorder by any chance? Before this philip messina contributor arrived, 4 persons in total edited this page over a period of 5 years and then during a week a dozen of never seen before persons insist on this very issue using similar arguments and style of writing? Do not try to use the fallacious authority of the many, please. It is obvious that you are all the same person. (PS: I am NOT an admin either)RingoRoadagain (talk) 22:26, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

Or... it could be that someone whose IP address was blocked from editing this document posted about it elsewhere asking people to weigh in.  179.43.156.163 22:30, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

The Showtime website refers to it as the Bang Bang Bar, saying it's the local roadhouse. If I'm going to my local bar, I probably won't say "I'm going to XYZ Bar." I'll say "I'm going to the bar." There's only one bar, so there's no need to specify. "Roadhouse" isn't a proper noun. It's a nickname for the place. OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 22:11, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

Please explain this card where "The Roadhouse" is repeated in capital letters over and over again. [http:// https://gyazo.com/59ded2c4506beec81067d49f4439cc9a Image of Card hosted by Gyazo]  Showtime's website means nothing to me, as The Roadhouse was established beyond any doubt as the name of this place in the early 90s, long before showtime had any interest.  And even though I don't care what Showtime says, this tweet from Showtime's Official Twitter says "Live at #TheRoadhouse" very clearly.  Capitalized.  179.43.156.163 22:27, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

I know I said it before, but this time will be my last time on this subject until further notice.

The Roadhouse page is protected from new and unregistered users because there has not been a consensus made yet and vandalism has been made on the page. So let's start being civil. We're getting nowhere by being aggressive to each other. I would be more than happy to remove any reference to "Bang Bang Bar." But the problem is the sign. I know everyone in the show, Access Guide, and the trading cards say "the Roadhouse" but we have this sign. What's that sign doing there? The easiest answer would be that it's the name of the establishment, and that's what the Wiki assumes because there's no sign that says "Roadhouse." We don't call the Double R by its sign because Secret History took care of that. The case has been made that the Roadhouse's reason for the sign is exactly because of the same reason as the Diner, or that it's the current name that nobody in the show refers to, out of tradition. On the other hand, yes, I know there are bars in real life that have "bang bang bar" signs but aren't actually called that, but there are also actual bars called the Bang Bang Bar.

So what we need in order to remove Bang Bang Bar (which is what I want to do! But this damned sign!) is to prove with solid evidence (which doesn't include "this character said Roadhouse") that the Roadhouse isn't one of those bars such as the one I linked to and that it is indeed one of the common "Bang Bang Bar" signs. So let's stop fighting and making accusations and actually find some evidence. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 23:05, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

Like I said, "roadhouse" is a noun. I'm going to the roadhouse. I'm going to the hospital. I'm going to the school. Just unspecific nouns. I agree with the admin. Unless there's definitive proof (which you have yet to give), then it shouldn't be changed. OnlyOnTuesdays88 talk 23:15, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

I am perfectly happy to be civil, and appreciate that from you as well.  This, to me, is a very frustrating argument because it seems so crystal clear to me as both a long time fan of the show and someone who appreciates being accurate when discussing works of fiction.  Roadhouse is a noun yes, and "The Roadhouse" is a formal noun.  The formal noun is used on the trading card that has been pasted above several times.  

You agree that the sign could be the name or could not be the name as you ask that this be proven, so you acknowledge that it isn't proven one way or another.  That means that the sign, because its meaning is unprovable, should not be considered as evidence.  Can we agree on this?  If we can't, beyond any doubt, prove the sign's meaning, then we can't use the sign as evidence of the bar's name in a separate debate.  Agreed?  

If you agree with that, then I submit as solid evidence the trading card which has been posted above, and also the picture of the page from  Welcome To Twin Peaks: Access Guide To The Town. Written by Lynch/Frost  The cards are also from Lynch/Frost productions and have stood without argument since 1991.  The card is the big piece of evidence here, it says The Roadhouse several times but most importantly it says it mid sentence and The Roadhouse is capitalized.  

I consider books and items published by Lynch/Frost to be official sources, as you do, evidenced by your usage of "RR Diner," which you say you use because it is verified by The Secret History Of Twin Peaks.

In conclusion, I submit that the sign is not submissible as evidence because its meaning is not proven.  Since the published works constitute solid evidence, "The Roadhouse" is the only proven name for the place, being confirmed by a book as well as a set of trading cards.  (Which are super awesome)  

179.43.156.163 23:52, June 28, 2017 (UTC)

Alright, now we're getting somewhere. The only things I take issue with are Access Guide and the cards since it's never been clear how much involvement Lynch/Frost had (in the back of my copy, Gregg Almquist, Tricia Brock, Robert Engels, Lise Friedman and Harley Peyton are given credit for "writing" but Lynch/Frost's names are up there with Wurman's name. The cards have posed problems, such as Nadine and Audrey's birthdates, as well as saying that the Tremond grandson is a real human being. But that's all beside the point, which is the Roadhouse, which these materials corroborate.

And I am fine with your proposal. After much thought, I can see how the sign isn't sufficient evidence even though I thoroughly believe it is what I've argued for, but that's all personal business, and admittedly, I have been a little unfair. I'm young and am still learning. I'm as green as they come when it becomes to administration and I apologize for any perceived wrongdoing.

However, I think the bit in the 'behind the scenes' section can stay. I don't think it's causing any harm. The Bang Bang Bar can move back to the lead if evidence comes that outright states it representing the name of the establishment. This kind of evidence would have to be from an official material item (other than the hallowed establishment shots) or a direct statement from either Lynch or Frost. Can we get an agreement on these terms? Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 00:13, June 29, 2017 (UTC)

This works for me. Apologies for slinging insults, but my god there is a certain type of fan who obsess over the dumbest sh!t - I just don't understand what would drive someone who's never contributed here before and apparently has no interest in improving the project to vandalize multiple articles to get their way. (To be clear I'm not referring to all the pro-Roadhouse folks in this thread, just the very "special" individual(s) who were mass editing all the other articles and adding stupid comments in the actual text.) Still - it's a stupid thing to get angry over no matter your position, so again - I'm sorry. --Pyramidhead (talk) 01:31, June 29, 2017 (UTC)

Would this be agreeable to everyone? --Pyramidhead (talk) 01:41, June 29, 2017 (UTC)

Works for me. Pro-Roadhouse camp, what say you? Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 01:53, June 29, 2017 (UTC)

This works fine for me.  I appreciate it.  I would like to say that in the future I do hope to contribute to the wiki in a positive manner.  Honestly, I never saw anything that I felt I could say better, it is all done very well.  To me, it isn't "the dumbest sh!t," as it is an actual location on the show.  If you said "BOB is really an angry pineapple who has come to kill Monsanto" I wouldn't have batted an eyelid.  But I grew up with the Roadhouse.  I knew it was The Roadhouse.  When I met some freaky person and developed a friendship over Twin Peaks, WE knew it was the roadhouse.  Half of my teenaged social life revolved around watching Twin Peaks as it aired in the early 90s and it is very very special to me.   I'm very glad that we've reached this final consensus like adults and can now move on.  I'm glad that writers who never watched the show will cease using this page to brow beat long time fans because "This page says it is the Bang Bang Bar"  And for the record... it wasn't me who massed changed all of those pages.  I can't tell you who it was, but I can tell you where he drinks.  

179.43.156.163 03:17, June 29, 2017 (UTC)

Awesome, I'll publish that version of the page and archive this conversation in the morning. I'm glad we could settle this and we'd be glad to have you around. Special Agent Dale Cooper (talk) 03:20, June 29, 2017 (UTC)

I don't get it?

Why don't they call the Double R diner by its sign?  I've never heard the term "Bang Bang Bar" in my life.